Showing posts with label Hiking. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hiking. Show all posts

Thursday, September 22, 2016

Annapurna Base Camp : Wonderful Hiking Experience

Before I begin, let me just introduce my write ups on Annapurna Base Camp, written in Malay -----------> Annapurna Base Camp (Bahagian 1) and Menjejaki Annapurna Base Camp. I guess it's about time to be bilingual so that I will be able to share more information to more people.

It is really difficult to start my write up on one of my most adventurous trip which is hiking to Annapurna Base Camp (ABC). So i guess it is best to share the various routes from several starting points heading to ABC. So I hope the picture below will help you to plan your hiking trip as you want. By the way, I would like to recommend my dearest friend Mr. Saligram Aryal from Mountain World Treks for the guidance, assistance and wonderful friendship during my hiking trip. Of course I will always remember my little Nepalese brother Ishwor Duwadi for taking care of us and becoming our yellow-berry picker along the treks.

So, after long discussion with my little sister and recommendations from Saligram, we finally decide to start the hiking from Nayapool, which is 1 hour drive from Pokhara. Basically, the chosen route is as the following;

Day 1 
Pokhara - Nayapool - Birethanti - Syauli Bazaar - Ghandruk 

Day 2
Ghandruk - - Komrongdanda - Kimrongkhola - Chhomrong

Day 3
Chhomrong - Sinuwa - Bamboo - Dovan

Day 4
Dovan - Himalaya - Deurali - Macchapuchhre Base Camp (MBC)

Day 5
MBC - Annapurna Base Camp - MBC - Deurali -  Dovan

Day 6
Dovan - Sinuwa - Chhromrong - Jhinudanda

Day 7
Jhinudanda - Kyume - Siwai - Syauli Bazaar

Day 8 
Syauli Bazar - Birethanti - Nayapool - Pokhara


Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience


Before the trip, I was advised to do some work out on regular basis for approximately a month. However, I did not do as advised so only god knows how painful, difficult and challenging it was when hiking without physical strength and stamina. My little sister is a frequent gym goer and she had no problem at all. If it wasn't because of me causing the delay, she would have been able to reach each stop in less than the average hour. It seems that 7 kms a day on the treadmill (regular basis of course) would definitely help to increase stamina and develop strong legs. So as to remind myself and the amateur hikers alike, it is best to work out on the stamina and the strength of the lower limbs especially the knees. Mind you that this hiking trip is not necessarily challenging your physical, but also your mental. 

On top of that, proper preparation of hiking attires is also crucial if you really want to enjoy the hiking. Proper hiking shoes are ABSOLUTELY necessary, or you will end up getting horrible pain on the knees. I bought a cheap hiking shoes which is made of leather but didn't bother to put it on to break it in before the hiking. So literally I was torturing my limbs for using such shoes.

The first 3 days are very much challenging especially when we have to climb thousands of steps. Some steps were uneven that we need to be careful. Silly miss-steps can cause severe injury so it's best to go slow, but not too slow of course. Going uphill with the steps was tiring but going downhill was much worse due to the impact of body weight on the knees.

I didn't really get to take pictures for the first 2 days of the trip because I needed to focus on the walking and the difficulties of the trek. Beautiful landscapes were abundant but watching my steps were the main priority. The challenge began as we started to ascend the steps to Syauli Bazaar onward. , Not only the steps, but the track seemed to elevate too with no straight path at all. I started to have muscle cramping but I did see it coming so I took the muscle relief tablet. 

At the end of the steps, there was actually road access commuting passengers from Nayapool to Syauli Bazaar. Basically one can actually cut short the hiking by taking the public bus or the jeep, and continue walking to Ghandruk. This would be appropriate for those who don't have 7 or days to spend to reach Annapurna Base Camp.


Steps at Syauli Bazar. This is not so steep.
We reached Ghandruk at 4.30 pm and it was getting colder. We stayed at Hotel Robin in a twin room with attached bathroom which costed us NPR 700 per night. There was a restaurant serving both western and Nepalese dishes. 

We figured out that our room was facing one of the Annapurna peaks. It was supposed to have a beautiful view.However, it was a misty morning so we barely see the peak. It was cold but a light jacket layered with a t-shirt was good enough to keep us warm. We had breakfast, refilled our bottled water and checked out. Refilling the bottle with treated water was chargeable, which is NPR 80 per bottle. We started the hiking at 8 am.

The second day of our hiking trip is a bit more difficult. It involved going uphill and downhill couple of times and also flights of stairs which altogether makes more than two thousand steps. The downhill route heading to Komrongdanda was really challenging. And for that, I had blisters too. I was told to go fast when going downhill. They said the slower the movement when going downhill, the greater the impact to the knees. Errr...not sure about this but I did try and later I'd rather do it slowly than getting hurt. 

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
View of Annapurna South

The Valley of Komrongdanda 
The torture begins after our lunch stop at Kimrongkhola village where we have to go uphill and it was quite steep. The stairs were uneven and to add the flavor, the scorching heat sun was almost demotivating me. It's important to be mentally strong despite physical exhaustion. Almost cried though and somehow a little grumpy for not being able to overcome the emotion. So what I did, I sat under a shady tree as long as I can, look at the horizon and keep re-hydrating myself. My sister and Nepalese brother were already ahead of me and didn't want them to wait for me. I was pretty confident that I could cope up with them later. 

Walked slowly and took small steps, I finally able to reach Chhomrong. We stayed at Excellent View Hotel in a twin room with attached bathroom. If I'm not mistaken, the rate is NPR 600 per night. Another thing one needs to know that use of Wifi is chargeable, normally around NPR 150 to NPR 300. It was a pleasant stay here but shame that Macchapuchhre peak couldn't be seen due to thick fog. Both my thighs were still cramping but I was so used to having this but hamstring cramps were unbearable.

On the third day, we started our hiking at around 8 am. First 30 minutes was a crazy downhill on steps. I was told there was a shop selling hiking gears, so I was hoping to get a new pair of hiking shoes. And I consider myself lucky that the shop did have nice pair of hiking shoes (North Face) with my size. It costed me USD 40 per pair. Apparently it wasn't the original pair but surprisingly it lasted till the end of the hiking trip. No damage, no tearing whatsoever.

After putting on the new hiking shoes, my feet were so much lighter that I could move faster. I guess I have made the right decision, otherwise I would be suffering. Landscape became much more interesting and it was on this day I started to use my camera often.

Nice and interesting view includes the mini natural pool, the walking path with ferns and also the hilly landscapes. Foggy weather seemed to be discouraging me a bit, sometimes. The hiking was a long one today but the terrain was pretty much better. But still, considering the distance, the burden was quite unbearable.

Natural pool near Chhomrong village

Part of the treks,


Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
A river after Chhomrong village. It's dry season so water level is low.

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
Bridge after going downhill from Chhomrong
We stopped at Sinuwa for lunch. As notified by many hikers, food and other materials got more expensive as we went to higher altitude. And given the unfavorable currency exchange rate between USD and RM, thus NPR, we did feel the impact. A plate of vegetable fried rice was around NPR 300 and a cup of tea was NPR 80. 

*Tips to reduce expenses on food: 1) It is a good idea to bring some ration which can last for the whole journey. and 2) Some food are sold in big portion, so sharing food between 2 persons are just fine (of course unless if you have a big 'tank'). 

We continued the walk to Bamboo. As the name indicates, there were indeed so many bamboo trees as we approach the small area. Bamboo was merely a small land with several guesthouses for the hikers and I didn't see any residential houses there. So we stopped there to relax before heading to Dovan.

We reached Dovan ahead of the expected time. It was getting colder in the evening and we stayed warm with layers of shirts and pants. This time, we stayed in a room without attached bathroom, so it was really cold after shower.  Use of heater costed NPR150 per person but I was fine with freezing water for some reasons. It wasn't a normal bath though. During the hiking trip, I realized that we went off to bed really early, as early as 9 pm. It was really deep sleep and we woke up at 6 am, feeling all fresh. 

The fourth day was more relaxing. On top of having my hiking shoes replaced, the terrain and treks were physically less challenging but we must be very careful with our steps due to uneven trek surface, sometimes sandy and pebbly. Walking to Himalaya was a pleasant one with sun light but weather was not that great when approaching Deurali, all grey and gloomy. It was raining just right after we were about to head to Macchapuchhre Base Camp (MBC). It took 2 hours to reach MBC from Deurali and passed through an avalanche/landslide risk zone, which was a little scary. With the dark and gloomy, that area reminded me of a scene the Lord of The Ring, where Frodo and Gollum were heading to Mordor. 

Half way to MBC, it was raining but because of the subzero temperature, the rain drops turned to ice. We met several people coming from MBC and they said there was snow storm. That got us freaking out a bit though I didn't particularly believe it. After entering the avalanche/landslide risked zone, all hiker was advised not to stop at all and get out of the zone as soon as possible. I couldn't help to stop and take pictures, though the pictures turned out bad and not interesting at all. I guess my camera came to its functional limitation.

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
Landscape before reaching Deurali

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
Cascading waterfall on the way to MBC

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
Part of the avalanche/landslide risked zone.

As we approached MBC, we were greeted with this view.
Finally, we reach MBC at 3.30 pm, which was earlier than the expected time. The rain has stopped but I could feel my face was numbing. It was freezing but bearable. We checked in at Gurung Co-Operative Guest House. The twin room rate (shared bathroom) was NPR 150 per person. Use of heater is much more expensive here. After putting our stuffs in the room, we went out to see the surrounding area and I was impressed to see the Macchapuchhre peak, which was just behind the guesthouse. As the weather started to get much colder, we returned to the room, immediately changed to dry clothing and hid under the thick blanket. At this moment, I was so sleepy so I slept right away, for half an hour at least. I woke up for dinner and had early dinner. Before sleep time, I felt hungry again and at this point of time, I wished I could have brought more food. I could easily feel hungry in cold environment.

We were supposed to start our fifth day as early as 4.30 am so that we could witness the sunrise. But since our little brother couldn't wake up, and we didn't want to wake him up, we left the guest house at 6.30. Opposite the guesthouse, we could see the glacier which we have to pass through to get to Annapurna Base Camp.
The glacier heading to ABC

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
Macchapuchhre peak behind the guest house
As it was cold and we haven't had breakfast, I was struggling to reach the end of the glacier. At some point, I felt that I was hyperventilating so I tried to calm myself and breath normally. I guess it must be the change in the altitude. I was hoping for the sun to rise because it was the only way I could feel warmer and the environment became much brighter and clearer. I didn't bother to take photos because I knew I wouldn't get good photos with that kind of lighting. But upon arriving Annapurna Base Camp, my camera didn't stop working at all.



Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience
Stunning

Annapurna Base Camp : The Incredible Hiking Experience




After having breakfast at ABC, it was time to bid good bye to this gorgeous place. We returned to MBC, checked out and headed to Dovan. The weather was even more gloomy and it rained awful lot. It was even scarier to pass the avalanche risk area with that kind of condition, and when approaching Deurali, I had goosebumps as it was foggy and I could barely see the steps and moved really slow. Thank god we reached Deurali safely and rested.

On the sixth day, we went down to Chhomrong for lunch stop using the same route. Today we have walked extra mile and further downhill to Jhinudanda. It was another small village with limited guest houses but most hikers would try to put up a night there to take a dip at the hot spring by the river. Going downhill from Chhomrong to Jhinudanda was a real knee-shivering experience. It was very steep and the stairs were somehow a bit dangerous without any banister, and narrow too. It was very important to move slowly and carefully, otherwise I would have injured my knees.

We checked-in at Hotel Namaste (NPR 300 for a twin room) and relaxed before taking a dip at the hot spring.To get to the hot spring, all visitor must pay NPR 50 as an entrance fee and it takes 15 minutes (more like 30 minutes actually) to reach the hot spring. It was enough for me but I wasn't feel comfortable as there were too many people and we shared the same pool with other gender. There were 3 or 4 pools and each pool can accommodate maximum 6-10 people. More people would just join in if there were too many people around.

We returned to the hotel, unpack and repack our backpacks. While waiting for dinner, we just stayed in the room, too lazy to get out of the room. I had lovely baked macaroni for dinner and I think it's the best meal I had during the hiking trip.

One of the pools at Jhinu hot spring (Photo credit : Alliance Himalaya)
On the seventh day, we headed to Syauli Bazaar but taking different route, passing through Kyume (coffee stop) and Siwai. We had lunch at Shangri-La Guest House which was in the middle between Kyume and Siwai. I was supposed to be able to walk without any problem but my backpack seemed to be a little heavy this time due to damp cloth in it. It was totally irritating and I was a bit grumpy due to my own mistake. Should have washed the clothes much earlier and they could have totally dry. 

The good thing about taking this route was that we've walked on a flat road, no uphills or downhills. This flat road started after we passed through Siwai village. I had difficulties going through this route because of the extra load on my back. The humid and stifling hot weather was another factor too. Not only that, I have another set of blisters on my foot which were more horrible. To overcome this, I tried to walk slowly and it was boring because I couldn't enjoy the scenery that much while doing so. At this moment, I was hoping I was still in the higher altitude. I just miss the cooling and fresh air. 

When reaching Syauli Bazar around 2.30 pm, we got off the road and took several flights of stairs downhill to the River Side Guess House. Room rate was NPR 350, detached bathroom. After checking in, the first I did was the laundry (again!!) and unfortunately it was raining heavily after I have done the washing. I wasn't feeling upset, angry or grumpy, but I smiled, thinking of how the nature can be really funny sometimes.

Since this was our last night, I ordered a lot of food, including the Nepalese version of dumpling called 'momo'. They have 2 versions of momo, steamed or deep-fried, so I picked the steamed momo. After dinner, and after having the stomach to bloat, I went off to bed and slept well.

Momo (photo kredit : Travel Talk

Our last day of hiking was a mixture of feelings. The walk from Syauli Bazaar to Nayapool was the easiest so I don't have much worthy things to share. It was an emotional to bid good bye to this region. Despite the challenges and the aches, the hiking experience to Annapurna Base Camp just made me feel like doing it again. I learnt my physical, mental and emotion limitations and I knew I would be able to do it again. The gorgeous ABC was truly mesmerizing and worth reaching for. Till we meet again, Annapurna







Sunday, June 15, 2008

Kota Kinabalu, Sabah: 13-15 June 2008

Departed to KK at 9.25 pm (12th June) and arrived there midnight. So straight away took a taxi to Beach Lodge (a backpacker hostel that is totally low cost and convenient too). All activities were booked via the internet (Mountain Trails & Travel Agent).
























13th June
Dive TAR Marine Park
Couldn’t wait to the divings. Around 9.15, Evan (the Dive Instructor) picked me up from Beach Lodge to Sutera Harbor Marina. I thought I would be sent to TAR Marine Park via Jesselton Point. The Marina was sooo beautiful and lots of private luxurious catamarans were there. Around 10, I and a couple of husband and wife from Germany, together with PADI OW students headed to Sapi island. By the way, our Divemaster was Rudy (dunno exactly the right spelling).We did our 1st dive at Agil reef. I couldn’t wait to see lots of nudibranchs but it was somehow a bit disappointing. There were only common nudibranchs (Phylidiella sp) appearing on my sight. There were tumpet fish, Mooray eel hiding in a vessel, lionfish and never-seen-before soft corals. Around 45 minutes, we ascended up with still a lot more air in the tank.
We relaxed at Sapi island. I had only cut fruits because I didn't have appetite at all to have proper meal for lunch due to headache. Hate it!!There were many people at Sapi island and I was uncomfortable with it.
Next dive, at 1.30. We dove at Sulug reef. Well, the visibility was like hell, I think less than 2 meters. But we managed to see Mantis Shrimp and Lionfish on the sandy bottom. And my 1st experience to see cute cuttlefish relaxing above the corals. There was also a pufferfish with it’s caudal fin got cut, maybe got bitten by something. I started to feel like vomiting. Hmmm….I knew I would throw up and that’s it, I did it when surfaced.
Around 3.30, went back to Beach Lodge and zzzzzzzzzzzz…
14th June
It was a very exciting moment. Couldn’t wait to go to Mt. Kinabalu. Around 7.15, a van picked me up and other tourists (Malaysian Chinese). We were brought right away to Kundasang. We arrived Kinabalu park and registered ourselves at the Kinabalu park headquarters. Well, when we arrived there, the 4 years old kid, who appeared in the newspapers for successfully reaching Kinabalu peak, was there. The paparazzi were busy taking his photos. Just couldn’t believe that kid managed to get there.
After registration, we were sent to Timpohon gate, which were couple of kilometers from the park. It was very cooling and refreshing. I brought my 7kg hiking. Well, it is proven that I was not strong enough to carry heavy load uphill. After 3/4 of the journey, I gave up and let our guide to bring my bag. By the way, our guide was Rapilin Wido, from the Dusun tribe and he was a Muslim. He was such a small guy but he carried 32kg loads uphill…and downhill. Oooo my God!! He was so patient with all the fuss I made but he understood it as that was my first time climbing Mt.Kinabalu.
The journey to Laban Rata took around 6 hours at a 6 km track. It was raining and worse, I didn’t have any raincoat. Luckily my winter coat manage to keep me warm and dry from raindrops. 6 km was damn far and it was even worse because it route was uneven. When it comes to climbing the stairs..well, I have no idea how many stairs I stepped on..that was really exhausting. With the still bearable pain, it was not a torture at all when I really could enjoy the cooling environment and beautiful scenery.
Laban Rata was already sighted. Environment was getting more and more interesting. Around 5 pm, we arrived Laban Rata resthouse and had our meal immediately. I ate a lot due to starvation.Hehe…After dinner, I was thinking of having hot shower but beyond my expectation, the chalet that I stayed in did not provide any hot shower, instead we had to do it manually…boil some water and mixed with cold water. That was so troublesome. Actually, I didn’t even bath because it was damn cold up there. I put on layers of pants and shirts but they weren’t enough to protect me from extreme cold. As early as 7.30, I went to bed with 2 layers of blanket. The worst part, I couldn’t sleep even for a minute because my feet was too cold. That was so uncomfortable but whatever it was, I knew I had to bare with it.
15th June 2008
Around 1.45 am, we woke up, boil some water and pour into our Maggi Cup. Definitely we have to eat something for energy. We started our way to the peak. It was dark and I didn’t have my head-torch. Luckily Rapilin had extra and I borrowed his. There were couples of climbers who were so excited to reach the peak. I guess I was damn slow and sleepy. Well, of course not enough sleep is very bad. There is a point where we need to use a rope lined along the path to the summit. Since it was till dark, I have no idea how extreme was the climbing. At Sayat Sayat checkpoint, we reported ourselves to the ranger and proceed to the peak. Journey was too long. Mount Kinabalu is definitely very huge. I felt that I have walked for 500 meters but looking around, I didn’t feel any change in the landscape. Just imagine how wide is the peak area. Around 5.45, sun started to rise. And it was really a pleasant moment. I really need sunshine to warm my freezing body. Exactly at the peak, climbers were so excited and some of them spent a long time there. The peak (Low’s Peak) is such a small space and climbers need to take turn to snap some pictures at the peak.
When the sun started to brightly, we made our way down back to Laban Rata. As expected, my weak knees limited my speed. Luckily there was a stick that really helped my movement. After 3 hours, we arrived Laban Rata and started to pack our stuff. And at 10, we went downhill. It was very tiring and sometimes I felt it was like a regret. But looking at the positive side, I know I have the ability to handle physical stress, and not only that, I know I manage to handle my emotion..though I tend to curse at times.Hehe…I was the last person to arrive Timpohon Gate, around 4 pm. Our lunchtime at Balsam Cafe (Kinablu Park) had elapsed and I guess the other 3 was quite angry with me (since I was the last to arrive). Due to that, we made our way back to KK. Around 7.30, I was sent to Beach Lodge. I was thinking of settling the laundry but I felt asleep due to exhaustion.
Well, lesson learned from this trip is, I need to keep fit and take care of my knees especially. Mountains are beautiful places and I shouldn’t let my knee problem to prevent me from hiking. Hope to be there again in the future.
16th June 2008
Bye bye

Monday, May 26, 2008

Gunung Bunga Buah, Genting Highland, Pahang

For a few weeks, I didn't manage to plan any activities until a 'Black Rose' suggested to me to climb Gunung Bunga Buah at near Genting Highland. And yes, this is my 1st time...of course after a long time, to involve in mountain climbing activity. It's really really a climbing for me. If I normally have my sweetheart as my buddy during the divings, but this time, I have Ross as my buddy. (I don't even know if there is buddy system in mountain climbing)
It's very near to KL and took only a few minutes to get there. 25 people participated and no idea who they are. Didn't do the introduction/orientation and don't bother to do so. The 1st part was to walk through a path and that wasn't a problem. Stopped at exactly the point of entry/exit of GBB. After a few minutes break, we started to climb where the steps are slippery clay and I started to worry about my shoes and clothing...hehe. As long as I'm not sliding down and bang myself to the ground, it's ok enough. This is the toughest part where I have to go uphill and downhill several times. I started to feel shooting pain on my toes and I knew this would happen. Going uphill was better though it was very exhausting. At least it wouldn't torture my knee as compared to going downhill. That time I knew that my shoes were not compatible for this type of activity and that indicates I have to look out for another shoes.
Carrying heavy load using improper rucsac is extremely an attempt to suicide....hehe...why I said that? Because I need a good and technologically manufactured rucsac or else my body won't last long. It needs a good support and even if I carry a heavy load, I won't feel the burden. And the most important is, I may not want to get knee dislocation due to the extreme body and load forces exerted on my knees while going down.
Unlike Ross, she's damn heartless because she looked very energetic all the time. Now I realize that I'm not fit enough, so what I'm going to do now is, to get fit and take a damn good care of my diet. I haven't moved around while carrying heavy load on my back before, so I think by exercising such climbing activity might help me to improve my strength.
Though the pains and tortures, it was a very beautiful day when the cool breeze blew my tired body. It's like in paradise when I look at the green foliages and heard the birds, the crickets making sounds. I have not heard such rhythm for a long time. It's very cooling and relaxing. The sense of giving up during the climbing faded away when I enjoy the nature. Now I understand why some people who practices yoga and some other 'weird' practices must have connections to the nature. Let me see...what will happen if someone 'bertapa' in the middle street of KL....hehehe...will there be any connection to the nature? Or will he/she commit suicide?...:p.
At GBB, the vegetations vary but not the fauna. I like to look at the orange moss where it is not commonly (or may not) found in the lower altitude.However, I found this one cute 'ulat bulu'. Damn big and i think if somebody accidentally touched it, he will get terrible itchiness. One funny thing about this 'ulat bulu' is that, it looks like as if it's wearing black lipstick and black mascara....wakakakaka. And remain static on the tree bark so that I can snap a picture of it.
We made a few minutes stop at Rock Garden where we could see Genting Highland clearly from that point. The whitish rocks here are covered with orange moss and they look perfectly good for photography. We also did not want to miss to take the shots of Genting Highland from that point. If I am not mistaken, Rock Garden is half-way to the peak of GBB

We reached the peak around 6.15 pm (Am I corect Ross?). Then we just lepak2, chatting with other climbers. As the sun fully set, rains came suddenly and heavily. The shelter was not fully set yet and we all got wet. While they set up the shelter, we stayed in the tent for awhile and when the shelter was ready, we moved into it. It was time for dinner, and those who are experts, cooked the dinner, and for amature/don't-even-know-how-to cook, just look at the struggling cooks. hahahaha ... I like this part. After dinner, we chit chatted a bit and went ZzZzZzZzZz...as usual, there's no way I can sleep. There was one fella snoring that night. I think all creatures in the whole GBB may have heard he snored. Sorry dude...didn't mean to insult but u should do something to cure/reduce it.
The next day, we had breakfast and started to pack our stuff. around 9.30, we descend. It was a great torture when descending. My knees could no longer manage to handle the weight of my rucsac. I felt my knees are loosening and shivering. Fortunately, the Proton team members were behind us and one of them (Ringo) carried my rucsac. While Lan, gave me some 'asam' and advice me to bring 'asam' whenever climbing the mountains. He also lend me a knee guard. I think I will have collapsed up there if I keep on carrying that unorganized rucsac. Whatever it was, I felt relief when I manage to end the journey safely though my toe nails are going off from the nail bed and my knees are weakening.
Next mountain...not yet in mind but definitely a simple one. I have to gain weight, keep fit and have own proper equipments first or else, I will face the same thing again.